James Hinton is a man that operates at many different speeds. As The Range, the production project he started in Providence, RI in 2011 after graduating with a Physics degree from Brown, Hinton prefers to take his time when creating his emotionally generous, panoramic brand of downtempo electronic music. As himself, Hinton talks very, very fast, constantly trying to play catch-up with his own speedy thought processes. Informed by patient takes on styles like grime and jungle, the Range’s 2013 debut Nonfiction won the young producer plenty of accolades thanks to tracks like “Metal Swing,” which nicked vocals from unknown YouTube artists.
Now with follow-up Potential, Hinton is doubling-down on his YouTube fascination, not only lifting every vocal on the new album from the video sharing site, but making a concerted effort to elevate the visibility of the people behind those voices. “‘Huh, I wonder what happens in those people’s lives?’ Kind of like, before and after they are putting themselves on YouTube. Like, what’s really there?” Hinton has been asking himself, going so far as to offer an accompanying documentary to Potential, titled Superimpose to answer those specific questions. We caught up with the now New York-based artist to talk footwork, bpms, Netflix, and the merits of sharing yourself with the digital world.
Videos by VICE
This is a potentially too-obvious question to ask right out of the gate, but I’ve been wondering why this record is called Potential?
Yeah, I guess it’s sort of a bit of duality. I studied physics in school, so the idea kind of first came out in that sense, this idea of potential energy, and the idea with music, that you can really only kind of like imbue this record with some energy of yourself and kind of like, put it in? But you don’t really have any control about how that energy gets spilled out into the world, which I guess is kind of the idea of like, just being comfortable letting something go and not being too precious about it. It’s kind of the start. Then obviously the more time I spent with a Youtube sample, the more it’s kind of bent back to the dual meaning of this idea of the questioning about how people talk about YouTube. It’s like, because of Justin Bieber, because a lot of people treat YouTube as a sort of talent discovery thing where the whole goal in people’s minds is to get discovered— whatever that means—and then become big and famous or whatever. I think I try to question that assumption and say, “No, no—like yes, of course that does exist, but there are these other people that are just doing it as part of their lives, or as catharsis, or something different” and just trying to talk about that. So in both senses, I’m just trying to question that word from both my angle with kind of where my background comes from, and maybe talking about Youtube and the idea of, “What does that actually mean?” Because I dig so deeply into it, just kind of trying to flesh out this new idea about what Youtube actually… what’s kind of going on in the depths of YouTube, basically.
So the title isn’t in any way a sort of quasi-ironic statement about this being your sophomore effort? I’m mean to call it Potential is—
[Laughs] I’ve certainly been worried about the idea that that would be what it was, but honestly, no, it was not tongue-in-cheek in the slightest, though I was very aware that was possible. I think because I can see kind of far into the future about what The Range will be, we’ll keep putting out records regardless. It’s not any sort of worry about a sophomore slump or anything like that.
Well as you’ve kind of mentioned, the big takeaway is that Potential is anchored by vocals taken from largely unseen Youtube videos. How did the concept come to you?
Well basically, I sort of was starting I think by the end of the writing on Nonfiction, the last record, I was starting to kind of gel around this idea of—because obviously a lot of people use samples from YouTube in general, but I think my favorite moments were from songs like “Metal Swing” and another song called “Jamie” [from Nonfiction] where it was a pretty raw vocal [taken] from an a cappella on YouTube. I think after finishing mastering and starting to tour [Nonfiction], I really did become kind of curious about like, “Huh, I wonder what happens in those people’s lives?” Kind of like, before and after they are putting themselves on Youtube. Like, what’s really there? Because so often you just focus on the lyrical content and whatever’s in the video, but then kind of getting interested in that. So I started to get kind of obsessive about making sure that I was trying to put as much of that energy back into the songs and not just having in any way it be a one-sided conversation. Like, trying to make sure that the YouTubes were informing the music, and then the music would come back and inform the people that were singing. So it really became the kind of focal thing I was most interested in pretty early in the process, especially when I wrote the first song on the record, it’s called “Regular.” And I think that really cued into the general theme, once I had that, which was relatively early on in the process, probably in earliest 2015.
You’ve made a concerted effort to give these unknown artists you sample visibility beyond the standard album credit or some kind of compensation for using their voices. Why was this so important to you?
I think it’s because they’re talented. I tried to give some sort of estimate about how much time I’ve actually spent on YouTube, just the raw amount of hours of video that you do watch, and I just think that these people represent the absolute best of the best. So from purely a talent perspective, these people need to be heard, I’m just so convinced of that. So that combined with that fact that they’re a huge part of the record to me, personally. What they’ve said in the lyrics, having listened to each song probably hundreds of times, it’s incredibly emotionally relevant to me, and I think because of that, they need to be out and showcased that these are their lives. It just became pretty important. I’m hopeful to whatever extent possible that it can be some sort of platform for those of them that are interested in doing music or maybe just a point of interest for people that aren’t. So certainly a lot of people, they have jobs, they don’t necessarily want to be performing music at all, or maybe they made the video a long time ago, but just that fact that it could maybe bring some joy or just have an article they could show their family or something. I think it would just be really be cool to have that work be shown. Because they are talented, they are like the absolute best of the best of what I was finding on YouTube.
So after you mined YouTube for these samples and found stuff you thought would work or impressed you, how did you go about getting in touch with these people? Was it at all difficult?
[Laughs] Yeah it was, it was. It was a bit of a detective process. I mean, I think… so YouTube obviously does have some sort of messaging service. I know I certainly don’t check my YouTube messages if they’re ever there, and I know a lot people that, particularly if the video was uploaded three, four years ago, it’s unlikely the email associated is even active, and you just get into all sorts of things. So for a few of them, the easier ones were where people were a) current and b) had kind of linked their social media, so like Instagram, Twitter. Which is how we got in touch with Kai on “Florida,” and Kai is super active and around all the time, that was a lot easier. The harder one were where we had to like, you know, make a guess. I think my favorite one is probably Kruddy Zak who is on “Copper Wire,” we just basically had to take a guess. OK, his name was Z-A-K, that helps because it’s not a normal [spelling] of Zach. The we had to be like, “Huh, we think he’s probably in London, so that’s Zak and London,” and we put that into Facebook and just kind of scrolled and were like, “Oh, that sort of looks like him but a lot older,” because he was 13 and he’s just turning 18 now. He was 13 when he made the video, and the we had to like basically find a way to get him to respond on Facebook. And for a while he was like, “Wait, are you joking? Like, what are you talking about?” It’s quite weird [to be] like, “Hey! I sampled this YouTube of you five years ago, I think it’s really, really amazing.” I don’t know when I was 18 if I even remember stuff that I did when I was that age. But then once of course he got the sense that it was real thing, I think he was really excited. But that was probably, I don’t know, at least a month and a half [of searching]. Like, at least. Which is quite a long time. And I think a lot of the others ones were on the spectrum between Kai who was super easy and responded the day I messaged her, and Zak who took forever. But it was pretty fun, actually. It was kind of like… it was cool to see that social media actually works [laughs]. You can actually find people.
Do you have any current or ongoing relationships with these people that you’ve used on the record?
Yeah, Kai and I both keep in contact, we’re excited about how relatively well “Florida” is doing, I’m so happy for us. It just passed a million total plays, which is quite cool. I think she definitely didn’t quite understand if the song was gonna come out because you make something and kind of see. So she’s been excited and we talk a lot, and she lives in New York so eventually I’m going to try and meet up with her again. And then [rappers] ST and Ophqi, I’m going to visit London pretty soon to start some record promotional stuff, and I’m going to meet up with them, so we have a Facebook group with the guy who is doing the documentary [about the making of Potential] as well, Daniel Kaufman. We kind of keep in touch about that stuff. And Damian, who is on “1804,” I think we’re going to start working on some stuff. I have to get some things together to send him. But yeah, those people are the most kind of… especially because I think their songs are… you know “Five Four” will be the next single from the record which is ST and Ophqi, and I think it’s really important that we constantly talk. And we just get along, which is kind of a nice thing that you don’t necessarily expect, but they’re all awesome people.
Because you mentioned it, I guess we should probably talk about the documentary Superimpose, which gives some insight into the voices you’re using. What can we expect from the film itself?
Yeah, I think the documentary— the trailer sort of gets there, but it becomes a bit of a study about, “What does it mean”— and I mentioned before about this idea like, you know, yes, someone can be on YouTube, and what does that mean, but then like, what’s really going on in a person that is deciding to upload videos and be active on that in terms of putting videos out? Like, what are their lives like, what kind of drives them, so a lot of it centers around discussions with Damian in Jamaica and with Ophqi in London about that process, them as artists—before, current and what they see in their future. Kind of really driving down into what kind of drives them, and this idea of their process, which is something I’m kind of interested in. I get to talk about my work a lot, so I’m excited to share their stories in particular, and use that to hopefully talk about the role of not just YouTube, but just this idea of putting yourself out there in 2015, 2016, what’s the goal, what does it mean, and try to point to different—because they’re quite different kind of reasons, but together you can kind of tie them together in a nice way, and hopefully really be able to get at a tough question. Because I think there’s a difficulty in the way people perceive YouTube and I’m really interested in kind of attacking that, and really questioning what the point is about being on that platform, essentially.
Do you think it’s a negative perception? When you say like a general perception, is it like a negative thing? Or do people see [posting videos] as a pointless endeavor, kind of hollow, self-serving—
No, I don’t know about that, I think people… it’s just sort of an unquestioning thing. I think people have this general idea of the person— whether it’s a vlogger or the singer that is just gonna kind of post themselves on YouTube, I think people generally have questions. Like, “OK, why do think that person is just gonna put themselves up there?” A huge number of people would say, “It’s because they want to be famous.” Period. I don’t think that’s a negative sign, I think like, in America in particular, that’s always been OK and fun and people don’t mind it, it’s just been a part of the culture for quite some time. But I think that comes with it, the huge amount of baggage of questions about where people are pointing their music. I think people then assume that they’re just interested in pop music. That’s not true. I don’t think people have a negative or a positive, they just have a neutral perception, and I’m trying to make the case that there is this pure idea about self-publishing in this sort of way that gets out a huge range of emotions that hopefully come through on the album, but also hopefully will come through in the documentary that just makes people think a little more before they come to judgement about what’s driving these people. [Laughs] I’ve just spent so much time, I’m just sort of enamored of the idea, I think it’s very emotional and special about the role of YouTube and putting videos out and getting responses in the people that do its lives. So I think that is just something I’m hoping that people grab. But no, I don’t think its hollow or negative, really.
Were you at all worried—because you aren’t the first and you’re certainly not the last—to mine YouTube for samples and even use them in a narrative context? Were you ever worried that to make a record like this, people would say that it has already been done?
I’m certainly aware that it’s a rich history. You can go back to plunderphonics and all that kind of stuff, it’s kind of getting at a similar idea for ages and ages. But what I think what is unique about this record is sort of the marriage of the two? I think a lot of it is sort of sampling for sampling’s sake from YouTube in the history, and I’m hopeful that what comes across and something I really strive to do with this one was to get them talking to each other, get the vocal and the music to kind of like, get some sort of loop going on? And I know that involves a lot of faith in the listener, because it very well could be like, “Oh, Youtube music producer. Been done, who cares, whatever, it’s fine.” But I’m hopeful. And so far it has been important now that there is something new and interesting going on here. And I’m hopeful that will continue. I think people are kind of like, interested for whatever reason. I think it’s luck but also hopefully that there is something like, another turn of the screw in terms of that story that people are finding compelling, even given the rich history. I think it’s actually becoming an additive effect, because people can kind of think about what this means in terms of sampling at large, but also YouTube and the human voice sampling. Nonfiction even did quite a bit of it as a start. So yeah, so far I’m hopeful that it will continue to be viewed in that light. Which would be awesome.
Well this involves Nonfiction too a little bit, as well as this record. Why do you choose, as an American artist, to primarily use voices from the UK?
Particularly, it’s an easier question to answer now having spent much more time obviously between [Hinton’s new label] Domino, and between mixing the record in London, and having spent some time obviously on the back of Nonfiction to have been there. But I think originally what I found compelling was that it just seemed to kind of work against the palette I was kind of using. Like obviously “Jamie” was an example, like big gigantic kick drum against kind of really soft pianos, and something about the grime sort of on the one rhythmic formation, as opposed to American hip-hop, which is very much like kind of on the back in the shoulders on the two and four. I think something about that propels, and I like the momentum that gave, but then of course now, having a lot more—I hadn’t gone over there at all before the record was out already, for Nonfiction. So having a lot more contacts and having gone out in London, I think it’s more important now in terms of why I found it interesting. That’s really the way I can put it, there’s so much more emphasis on the downbeat in grime to me that I think acts as a momentum propellor and it allows me to be more ethereal in music, so it’s really just a marriage. And I think it has a lot less to do with the context. I think people in both countries are making amazing work and are lyrically brilliant, but I think something about the way it’s framed against my music is very… something about it kind of clicks, which I like.
When you first started The Range, you were influenced by stuff like Baltimore club and grime, but this new record draws fairly heavily from footwork. Do you connect to that genre at all? Was it an influence?
Yeah, massively. That’s very perceptive. There’s something I found interesting coming from a percussive background, that footwork is just incredible in that sense. It’s so micro-interested in the grid, the 16th note grid, essentially. It’s just so specifically tuned there, and I’ve always found that interesting because if you allow that to be interesting percussively, I think it kind of opens up the top frequencies to really be a bit more cloudy and ethereal and still have that work. And obviously, it’s just like, even retrospectively to have seen that from 2011 when it first kind of started to gain some momentum. I know that [DJ] Rashad and [DJ] Spinn were doing this for a long time, but it was cool to kind of see that kind of take form and then continue to evolve and change. I think with DJ Paypal and DJ Earl now, it’s definitely taking on a new twist. So I think I was kind of inspired by their ability to evolve at the 160 bpm template. That was pretty inspiring. Obvious, jungle is so fast with the breakbeats at 170, 172, 180 that it doesn’t quite allow you as much space. There’s something magical about the 160 kind of tempo that I think opens up but still keeps the energy and the freneticism there. It’s like a really weird mixing ground of that. I still find it just incredibly fascinating, so I’m glad you picked up on that. That’s good.
Unlike traditional jungle or footwork, you favor more relaxed tempos. Have you ever been tempted to speed things up? Make what people would perceive to be proper dance tracks?
I definitely intentionally stay out of the 120 to 130ish range. I think originally on the last project that I was working on in college, it was all about using a lot of elements of Baltimore club but then trying to get out of the tempo range and see what happens, basically. So I think obviously first, that’s where my head is at, to be inspired by and think about footwork and jungle, but then maybe operate outside of the tempo range. Like “No Loss” being a good example, it starts at something like 130 and jumps up to 142 by the end of the song. But I think a lot of what makes the songs work is that change of tempo. So yeah, I’m interested, I mean I definitely… I think a lot of producers, they all get enamored of the idea about, “Oh, what happens when I just make the songs I’m inspired by!” But honestly, it might do the project a disservice. As much as I’m interested in it, I think a lot of kind of what helps it kind of gel itself together is that taking a lot of all the elements and kind of re-purposing them into this new tempo range. But with songs like said, songs like “Falling Out of Phase” is at 172, that’s right in the range. And “Five Four” is in 160 land, it’s right there, but I just think that using half-time might seem like it’s kind of in a different place, but I think a lot of the time it is in that zone, but then just kind of maybe sort of switching the connection a little bit and not going full-time when it feel like you should or staying in half-time when it feels like you should just move out of there, that kind of thing.
I’ve heard this record described as “open-hearted” and even “inspiring.” Do you view it that way?
In the sense of sort of like maybe being like earnest or something? Certainly, yeah. I think it’s not trying to pull any sort of cheekiness or anything, it’s very much open in that sense to me. It’s a tough one, because you end up—especially because it’s just me, it’s not like a band or anything—so a lot of the process is pretty solitary. So I definitely ended up getting into this zone, this mismatch in the heat of it that you really start to believe the YouTube samples are kind of like really speaking to you. And I think that’s totally true. In that sense, it’s a pretty pure snapshot of where I was when I making the album. Pretty open and kind of emotional and driven and on the road and all of that kind of stuff which is a bit of a trope. But it was important to me that it wasn’t… I don’t think I’m trying to be in any way cheeky or understated or any of that kind of stuff, so just like trying to present a plain emotional kind of picture, it was important to me on this one.
Some corners of it make it feel like a self-help record. Some of these little narratives fixate on deal with optimism in the face of despair, or overcoming obstacles. Personally, were you in need of any self-help while making this?
[Laughs] I don’t think so. I think everyone certainly… you have your days, right? And a lot of these songs were kind of on those… points in time when you are feeling a bit down or you are feeling a little bit helpless with the state of things, just for the day. I don’t think I was in any sort of need of it, but I think the songs and the words and lyrics definitely still, when I listen back to it, I’m instantly transported and it kind of steals me up and gets me back on the horse, ready to go in that sense. I certainly hope it can help in that capacity, because I think like in whatever minor way it was able to help me through a few tough days, I think it certainly can serve that, and I hope it’s helpful in that way, it’s important.
Obviously this record is very much indebted to internet culture. How much time do you spend online in your free time? And what do you spend it doing, opposed to work.
I get asked that quite a bit. I’m kind of a workaholic, so it’s tough for me to kind of like separate work and play. Certainly a fair bit of Netflix. I’m there guy who has watched every new show, just because I think it’s nice for me to take some time out to watch. But honestly, there’s not a day that goes by, because I have quite a few monitors on my computer at home, so one of them always has email, which is important. One of them always has Netflix, two of them are probably always on YouTube and one is always a Logic session that’s open, so I think that’s sort of like where I’m at. But I don’t spend much time on production forums or any of that stuff, it’s pretty much either working or trying to completely zone out and have a movie or a TV show on or something. Mostly that’s where I spend the time.
Any Netflix recommendations?
[Laughs] That’s a tough one. What did I see see recently that I liked? That was good? I think Master of None was good, that was definitely like a binge-watch. I don’t know if I’ll re-watch it at all, but I did like it, particularly I guess in New York. I was like, “Oh, that’s Baby’s All Right! Oh, there’s the Commodore!” There are so many spots that all my friends go that were in it, which is sort of fun. I just started the Gillian Jacobs one called Love that just came out.
Yeah, I did that one this weekend too.
Did you finish it?
Yeah, I got kinda hooked on it, and I wasn’t expecting to because not much Apatow-related has done much for me lately. This I thought was great. Really well-written.
Yeah, I really like it so far. It’s quoting a lot of that sort of genre, it feels like it’s subverting itself in a lot of ways, so it’s good, yeah, I like it. And you know, I’ll watch a lot of documentaries as well. WWII stuff, that kind of thing. Just anything that can like, completely remove myself from YouTube is a good thing.
But you’re not like a huge Twitter guy, are you?
Not crazy…
More of an observer than a contributor?
Yeah, it feels like everyday there’s something like huge going on on Twitter. You always have a choice of participating or not, and I love it for that. I love that all my friends are on it and we can kind of talk, and I DM a bunch. But in terms of being a personality, I think you kind of have to really commit, and then you’re that guy when you go for it [laughs]. And I don’t think it’s ever… I’d prefer to be working than be stuck in a Twitter battle, so I’m feeling better about my participation so far [laughs].
You’re a wise man. So I have one last question, and it has to do with Potential only being your second full-length, but it does feel like the definitive Range release. How do you plan on expanding on a sound that feels right now so cemented and singular?
Well first of all, thank you. That’s a gigantic compliment.
Hey, it’s a really fucking good record.
Yeah, thank you so much. So I think that I am conscious of the fact that it would be both a mistake to move away from a lot of the themes as it would be to just quote them on the next one. I’m very conscious of that. I there are a couple of interesting moments that I’m kind of chewing over in my brain. The first is that “Copper Wire,” the first time— if memory serves— I’ve ever put two different YouTube vocals together on one thing, and kind of tried to do… kind of tried to raise the level of participation and think of one as a hook and one as a verse. But I think that’s certainly a possibility. I’ve also recently been kind of thinking like, I wonder if maybe the people that are on Potential, if there’s something there where we could work together in a real world setting. That sounds interesting to me. But I don’t know, I think it’s the kind of thing that you sort of just keep working and trying to think of— and it will eventually come to me— but that’s kind of where my head is at right now, those two possibilities. I’m almost movie to a kind of YouTube collage point of view with the multiple voices per song, or maybe we try to like really move it into more of a world that’s real. But we’ll see. Who knows?
Zach Kelly is a writer based in Washington DC. Follow him on Twitter.
—
