Since the band’s inception, NYHC legends Burn have been redefining hardcore music. When their self-titled EP hit the scene back in 1990, they were a band with their own style and vision, incorporating progressive songwriting structures and introspective lyrics. Though they never officially disbanded, they went into long periods of inactivity—that is, until recently, when the band sprung back into action (look for them at Brooklyn’s Saint at Brooklyn’s Saint Vitus Bar Bar on October 14).
On the heels of 2016’s From the Ashes, the band is already poised to release a new LP in early 2017, and co-founder Gavin Van Vlack is staying busy. A Renaissance man whose passions include music, fitness and a unique philosophy on living a maximized life, Van Vlack is a player in the martial arts and physical culture movement in New York City. He puts in time as an instructor at Chok Sabai and Kings Thai Boxing as well as other gyms and fitness facilities, and founded Physical Culture Collective in 2015 as a manifestation of his two worlds.
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Located at 857 Broadway in Bushwick; it’s place where people of all backgrounds and skill levels can go to learn martial arts, get stronger and improve their lives. There’s a casual, rock ‘n’ roll environment at the PCC and you’re likely to run into Craig Setari of Sick of It All getting in some boxing or Sergio Vega of Deftones hitting Thai pads. As he told Noisey, “I train at the PCC multiple times a week when I’m not on the road. The staff are cool and attitude-free, extremely knowledgeable and make training fun. Good luck finding a better spot than the PCC.”
Noisey: Burn never actually broke up, so why the long periods of inactivity?
Gavin Van Vlack: A lot of it was immaturity; we didn’t really break up, we couldn’t work together at that point so we needed to walk away. I didn’t realize it until after doing the Cleanse record that Chaka had gone into a totally different realm than what we were doing with Burn. At that point, I couldn’t imagine doing anything other than aggressive music so it wasn’t working. We did the Cleanse EP and though I think it’s good, I don’t think it’s a good representation of the band, because we rushed through it. We had this idea that we work better under pressure, but I’ve learned over time that we don’t. That kind of intensity could be deleterious to the songwriting process.
I went off and started doing different music, Chaka had done a bunch of solo stuff. It’s cool because it gives him an avenue away from Burn. When we were younger, we kind of treated it like relationships where it’s like, ‘No! This is my band I have to do this!’ and there was this disloyalty thing that we were afraid of. Music and martial arts are the greatest mistresses in the world because you can walk away from them and they don’t hate on you. They may be a little bit weird when you come back and you may have to rebuild the vocabulary so to speak; actually going with those other lovers, you can kind of bring back something from that previous relationship that helps it to grow.
The door was left open, but there was a time, to honest, when Chaka and I were in severe disagreements about a lot of things. We weren’t even talking but Burn was always something greater than us. My whole life is about being involved in things bigger than myself: Muay Thai, fitness, music, it’s bigger than me. You need to have the audience, you need to have your peers, you need to have your community in order for it to be as awesome as it could be.
What drew you guys back into the fold this time around?
The person responsible for it was Sacha Jenkins, the editor-in-chief at Mass Appeal magazine. He sat us down and said, ‘Listen, could you guys grow up because as a fan, I would love to see another Burn show.’ I realized that I missed that music; the energy that Chaka and I have onstage is very palpable. I think Chaka felt the same way. We realized that any disagreements we had were ego and fear based. It’s like the old saying: ‘Feed the soul and starve the ego’. I missed that energy of playing live with Burn and my ego was preventing that.
Sacha reached out to Joe Cammarata from the Black and Blue Bowl, and asked that if he could get Burn back together, would they be able to play Black and Blue that year. We did, and it was amazing. After the show, we sat down and Chaka took the words out of my mouth—’If we’re going to do this, I want to write new material.’ That was the catalyst that put us back on the stage.
How is the new material different?
I used to try and write in a pressure cooker all the time. Now, I try not to stress over a song. I let a song be a song. I think I wrote 25 concepts for the new record and we’re going to go with 10. I’m a big believer in not sitting around.
Ideas and concepts are always looking for willing and open vessels. I know people have heard this concept before; I’m a big believer in what Stephen King said, ‘Amateurs wait for inspiration, the rest of us just get up and go to work.’ I know what my best hours to work on music are, I know what my best hours to train are, these are things that I’ve learned over time. I would wake up, brush my teeth, make coffee, take the dog out, sit down in my studio space and get to work. I get a rough mix of it down, then bounce it to Chaka to see what his take on it was. Once we got into the deal with Deathwish, I would start sending stuff to [producer] Kurt [Ballou] to see what his ideas are. He would be honest with me about it. I have to bounce the ideas off of others.
The songwriting process is really scary, because you’ll hear something and think it’s such a great idea, but there is also that little voice in the back of your head telling you it sucks. You won’t know until you release it and see how people react to it. With the new EP, I’ve been astounded and totally honored with the reaction we’ve been getting. I have to be in the mindset of when I was writing the early stuff, but also I need to allow myself now to express how I feel because I think I have a much more mature way of putting it across.
Burn has been very active in 2016; the EP From the Ashes was released in April, and there is already talk of a new record. How is the progress on the new record? Is it going to be an LP
It’s going to be a full-length! We’re like the EP Kings! We’re going to do 10 songs, we’re recording with Kurt Ballou and working with Deathwish Inc. They’ve been nothing but cool to us.
We’re hoping for the LP to be out in Spring 2017. We’re going out on tour in January with Agnostic Front and Suicidal Tendencies in Europe and I’m hoping that it comes out right after that.
When did you get into martial arts and strength training?
Like any kid, I always wanted to be involved in martial arts in some way or another. We had friends that grew up in the Lower East Side whose uncles owned Karate dojos. We’d go in and train but you’re so distracted as a teenager. There’s so many other things going on like hardcore shows and skating.
It wasn’t until I was like 20 or 21 when my friend AJ James came back from Paris where he had started training at France Muay Thai; he was one of those guys that could assimilate into martial arts styles very easily. He came back and was on fire about it. I started working with him at Gleason’s, where we met Phil Nurse’s first student, Ajahn Nestor Muerte. He introduced us to Phil and we started training together. It was different than anything I had ever experienced in martial arts. Muay Thai was a whole other animal, and it resonated with me. This was back in 1990 or ’91, and Muay Thai was completely unknown in the US.
Can you describe your philosophy regarding wellness, staying in shape and living life to the fullest and the reason for starting the Physical Culture Collective?
The term ‘For us, by us’ has been brought up. My whole ethos has been steeped in the hardcore culture; it was my family because I didn’t have much of a family. The PCC opened right after Burn played the Black and Blue Bowl, and I remember talking with Craig Setari from Sick of It All about boxing, and we noticed a lot of people not taking care of themselves in the hardcore scene.
The most rebellious thing you can do right now is take care of yourself; they want you sick. They want you in the medical industrial complex, they want you eating their bullshit pseudo foods. This isn’t about a straight edge movement or any kind of religion, this is just about being self sufficient and taking care of ourselves. There is nothing wrong with being strong and smart; they walk hand-in-hand.
I can’t keep people around me that are happy with going to bed either the same as they were when they woke up or less than they were when they woke up. I try to keep people around me that are constantly pushing themselves. I’m not talking extremes; just a little bit smarter, a little bit stronger, a little bit better suited for the world because its an obligation that we have to our community. We’ve had people come in here that literally did not have their feet underneath them, and we’ve gotten them to move better. That’s the whole idea.
We’re the only species that chooses to exercise because we have to, because all of the movement patterns that we developed as children get negated the second we get put into school. They put us in chairs and have us sit down for six to eight hours a day with limited time to run around and play like we’re supposed to. You know what that does to the brain? It drives it buck-fucking crazy! The brain is a problem-solving organism, and if we don’t give it problems to solve, it will start to create scenarios itself.
A lot of people that train here are musicians. What do you see being the common thread between music and training?
The common denominator between training and music is that they’re both fun! It’s challenging; when you’re doing padwork and you’re really trying to get a technique down and you’re tired and you’re trying to hold it together, it’s same thing as when you’re experimenting with a song and you’re trying to find that right feeling. Like music, there are other people involved. You’re involved with your training partners, your coaches, your band, your audience. There’s a lot of common threads to it.
When you get on stage, you should want to be the coolest kid in the room. I’m not a big believer in that whole thing of ‘I’m just like you! You can do this!’ No, I work my ass off to learn my art. I worked hard to learn this, to learn how to play these notes, to learn how to make this instrument sound this way; to be able to play in time with that guy sitting behind me. With martial arts and music, you have to work to be good at it. I think that mindset draws similar people.
Beside yourself, who are the instructors at the PCC?
All of my instructors are started off as interns. My two top coaches are Zach Dahm and Naomi Cookson; I’ve worked with them for half a decade now. They’re both competitor coaches; amazing eyes, and amazing concepts on movement and how to improve Muay Thai skills. Carlos Saldana who has also been working with us for 5 years, started with us when he was 14 years old. We nicknamed him ‘Rabbit’ a long time ago. He’s a competitor, fiercely smart, amazing athlete. All of our class coaches are also strength coaches. Jeni Livingston is our yoga coach. In addition to classes, we do private and semi-private training.
What kinds of activities are offered at PCC?
We have a Muay Thai, Brazillian Jiu Jitsu, yoga and the strength and conditioning program which is called the Odd Object Playground; it’s a really popular, movement-based and we try to keep it fun. A lot of the Odd Objects stuff is to get your Jiu Jitsu or your Muay Thai better, but also developing skills in the gym to improve anything you do outside.
It would seem that Manhattan would be a great location for the PCC, why did you pick Bushwick?
We picked this neighborhood, first off because I love this space and secondly, we did a little bit of walking around the neighborhood and we realized it was something that resonated with us. We’ve been taken in by the neighborhood really well. This is our clientele base, these are our people.
When we first opened up we said we wanted this place to be a reason why people want to live in this neighborhood, and we’ve become that. It’s an honor to me.
Burn photo by Jules Jordan
Gavin photos by Katrin Albert
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