I’ve been watching Mike Leigh’s movies for almost 20 years and every time I see a new one I have a fantasy conversation with him afterward, which generally consists of me trying to worm crucial personal info out of him. Because his characters can be so hyperreal—the kind of people who are so interesting or honest or insanely, baroquely fucked up they make you curious about living another day yourself—I usually feel like I’ve just met them offscreen. Like, in
has anyone considered that Angela might be retarded? In
, for which of several reasons would Johnny be faking his cough? Does Gary Oldman’s skinhead have some kind of schoolgirl crush on Tim Roth’s nerd in
? Not many other directors could even get me to wonder this sort of stuff.
When asked me to actually talk with Mike Leigh for this issue, I gulped. For one, he’s got a reputation as a hairy interview. Legend has him cutting off journalists he thinks haven’t done their homework and being hostile to anyone he even slightly perceives as having an agenda. Good for him, but erm… Then I saw his new movie, , which is about a woman so cheerful she makes Amelie look like Diamanda Galás. I didn’t like it that much at first. It seemed kind of weak for a Mike Leigh film. But sure enough over the next few days I found myself mentally rerunning almost every scene, amazed yet again at the densely woven characters and what made each one tick. Now I love it. So yeah, I looked forward to getting him on the phone.
It turns out Mike Leigh is nothing like they say. It’s just that he doesn’t cotton to the idea of being misunderstood, period. He’ll vigorously argue any mistaken notions about his work that you put across, no matter how slight, and calibrate every opinion of his own to a precise click. He’s also mordantly funny about people and things he doesn’t like. He’s basically just like half my friends. Except that he’s one of the best living filmmakers in the world. Vice: Happy-Go-Lucky looks different from your other films. It’s jammed with bright, saturated color and it’s shot in wide-screen.
Mike Leigh: A first for you. Poppy is almost obnoxiously chirpy, but that’s just one of an ensemble of qualities. Her stubbornness not to be afraid of life is great to watch. What made you want to present this particular character now?
She had interesting parts in your two previous movies, All or Nothing and Vera Drake. But I’d never have guessed she could carry a lead like this.
There’s an encounter between Poppy and a homeless guy she meets late one night. He’s talking gibberish but she looks him in the eye and seems to get exactly what he’s going on about. Given your extemporaneous method, did Sally Hawkins know how that scene was going to play?
then So when you improvised at the start of your process, had it even been explained to her who this person was that she was going to encounter?
A cornucopia of good shit from Mike Leigh’s Abigail’s Party, Meantime, All or Nothing, and Career Girls. Every single movie that he’s made is better than almost any other movie by any other person. You start the process with only a vague idea of who the characters are, who even Poppy is.
Well, all this has an interesting effect. More than once after seeing one of your movies I’ve found myself thinking about a character as if they were someone I’d actually met. They seemed to enter the part of my brain reserved for new, possible friends. Or enemies.
When did that first become the objective?
An ongoing problem in the cinema.
laughs You’ve been making plays and films for over 40 years. What was the atmosphere in 1960s London for accepting your ideas when you started out?
Shadows Like Claes Oldenburg and Yayoi Kusama.
How did you fit into all this?
Abigail’s Party More good shit from Mike Leigh’s Abigail’s Party, All or Nothing, Bleak Moments, Topsy-Turvy, and Career Girls. One of my favorites is your first film, Bleak Moments. It also started as a play. Bleak Moments Nuts in May How were the original plays received?
Times Bleak Moments Times The reason I ask you about the early responses is because you seem to still encounter confusion from audiences and critics now.
Happy-Go-Lucky Happy-Go-Lucky Critics can be rough on your actors too.
Happy-Go-Lucky Another standard detraction is that you’re sneering at the working-class characters in your films. I know you don’t agree with this.
I showed Abigail’s Party to someone recently and they had that knee-jerk reaction. A real lefty I might add.
Abigail’s Party Do you use actors with the same background or class as the characters they’re going to play?
Grown Ups All or Nothing And I guess you could say that, being as it’s set in the 1880s, Topsy Turvy would be a good example of unfamiliar territory.
Topsy Turvy Would you be interested in making a film about actual filmmaking?
I’ve often wondered if your films operate as psychoanalysis?
Actually, I meant your own psychoanalysis.
I’m talking about watching one of your own films years later and understanding something different about not only the film, but yourself. If any director would be interested in that I thought it might be you.
Sally Hawkins and Mike Leigh on the set of Happy-Go-Lucky. Photo by Simon Mein/Courtesy of Miramax Films You’re known for casting the same actor again in different films, sometimes many years later. Is this partly because you wanted to investigate something else about them? Phil Davis comes to mind. Anthony O’Donnell. For those familiar with your films, it adds another layer as well.
Although it’s one of your most brutal films, I noticed a new audience for your work after Naked.
Life Is Sweet High Hopes Meantime Naked Naked is a great example of this: Your films can be harsh in their depiction of people’s lives, but they’ve all got this seductive entertainment factor too.
King Lear Give me a Hollywood movie that you’ve seen lately. And approved of.
There Will Be Blood What about younger audiences? Do you think it’s true that they’re too ADD to focus on anything but the mythical, served up with big-budget effects?
Are you thinking about the next generation?
But in regard to your way of creating a film, can that be taught to a new generation in the same way as, say, method acting?
Sure, I figured as much. Not that you’re about to leave anytime soon anyway, but what about critics who say that with Happy-Go-Lucky Mike Leigh has mellowed?
Vera Drake Happy-Go-Lucky
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When asked me to actually talk with Mike Leigh for this issue, I gulped. For one, he’s got a reputation as a hairy interview. Legend has him cutting off journalists he thinks haven’t done their homework and being hostile to anyone he even slightly perceives as having an agenda. Good for him, but erm… Then I saw his new movie, , which is about a woman so cheerful she makes Amelie look like Diamanda Galás. I didn’t like it that much at first. It seemed kind of weak for a Mike Leigh film. But sure enough over the next few days I found myself mentally rerunning almost every scene, amazed yet again at the densely woven characters and what made each one tick. Now I love it. So yeah, I looked forward to getting him on the phone.
It turns out Mike Leigh is nothing like they say. It’s just that he doesn’t cotton to the idea of being misunderstood, period. He’ll vigorously argue any mistaken notions about his work that you put across, no matter how slight, and calibrate every opinion of his own to a precise click. He’s also mordantly funny about people and things he doesn’t like. He’s basically just like half my friends. Except that he’s one of the best living filmmakers in the world. Vice: Happy-Go-Lucky looks different from your other films. It’s jammed with bright, saturated color and it’s shot in wide-screen.
Mike Leigh: A first for you. Poppy is almost obnoxiously chirpy, but that’s just one of an ensemble of qualities. Her stubbornness not to be afraid of life is great to watch. What made you want to present this particular character now?
She had interesting parts in your two previous movies, All or Nothing and Vera Drake. But I’d never have guessed she could carry a lead like this.
There’s an encounter between Poppy and a homeless guy she meets late one night. He’s talking gibberish but she looks him in the eye and seems to get exactly what he’s going on about. Given your extemporaneous method, did Sally Hawkins know how that scene was going to play?
then So when you improvised at the start of your process, had it even been explained to her who this person was that she was going to encounter?
A cornucopia of good shit from Mike Leigh’s Abigail’s Party, Meantime, All or Nothing, and Career Girls. Every single movie that he’s made is better than almost any other movie by any other person. You start the process with only a vague idea of who the characters are, who even Poppy is.
Well, all this has an interesting effect. More than once after seeing one of your movies I’ve found myself thinking about a character as if they were someone I’d actually met. They seemed to enter the part of my brain reserved for new, possible friends. Or enemies.
When did that first become the objective?
An ongoing problem in the cinema.
laughs You’ve been making plays and films for over 40 years. What was the atmosphere in 1960s London for accepting your ideas when you started out?
Shadows Like Claes Oldenburg and Yayoi Kusama.
How did you fit into all this?
Abigail’s Party More good shit from Mike Leigh’s Abigail’s Party, All or Nothing, Bleak Moments, Topsy-Turvy, and Career Girls. One of my favorites is your first film, Bleak Moments. It also started as a play. Bleak Moments Nuts in May How were the original plays received?
Times Bleak Moments Times The reason I ask you about the early responses is because you seem to still encounter confusion from audiences and critics now.
Happy-Go-Lucky Happy-Go-Lucky Critics can be rough on your actors too.
Happy-Go-Lucky Another standard detraction is that you’re sneering at the working-class characters in your films. I know you don’t agree with this.
I showed Abigail’s Party to someone recently and they had that knee-jerk reaction. A real lefty I might add.
Abigail’s Party Do you use actors with the same background or class as the characters they’re going to play?
Grown Ups All or Nothing And I guess you could say that, being as it’s set in the 1880s, Topsy Turvy would be a good example of unfamiliar territory.
Topsy Turvy Would you be interested in making a film about actual filmmaking?
I’ve often wondered if your films operate as psychoanalysis?
Actually, I meant your own psychoanalysis.
I’m talking about watching one of your own films years later and understanding something different about not only the film, but yourself. If any director would be interested in that I thought it might be you.
Sally Hawkins and Mike Leigh on the set of Happy-Go-Lucky. Photo by Simon Mein/Courtesy of Miramax Films You’re known for casting the same actor again in different films, sometimes many years later. Is this partly because you wanted to investigate something else about them? Phil Davis comes to mind. Anthony O’Donnell. For those familiar with your films, it adds another layer as well.
Although it’s one of your most brutal films, I noticed a new audience for your work after Naked.
Life Is Sweet High Hopes Meantime Naked Naked is a great example of this: Your films can be harsh in their depiction of people’s lives, but they’ve all got this seductive entertainment factor too.
King Lear Give me a Hollywood movie that you’ve seen lately. And approved of.
There Will Be Blood What about younger audiences? Do you think it’s true that they’re too ADD to focus on anything but the mythical, served up with big-budget effects?
Are you thinking about the next generation?
But in regard to your way of creating a film, can that be taught to a new generation in the same way as, say, method acting?
Sure, I figured as much. Not that you’re about to leave anytime soon anyway, but what about critics who say that with Happy-Go-Lucky Mike Leigh has mellowed?
Vera Drake Happy-Go-Lucky
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